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Discussion Starter #1
So we have been talking about Ghibli not maintaining exclusivity? In 2011 60 Million cars were produced worldwide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:World_motor_vehicle_production_by_manufacturer_in_2011

1.7M BMW
2.1M Damlier (MB I believe)
1.4M Audi (VW numbers $8M not broken out so I guessed and it will not matter you will see

5.2M Total Competitors Vehicles

25K 2014 Maz
25K 2015 Maz

One Year Max Production represents the following:
.00042% Total Production
.0048 ok .005% of Competitors Production

And production is probably increased since 2011!

Ok So Maserati triples production here is what you get

.00126% Total Production One year
.0144% Total against Competitors

Now Maz has been producing 6K cars a year for 20?? years compared to the Total Production during that time how small do you think the number is??? very small!!

My point is that exclusivity will be maintained unless Maserati tries to get to production levels of BMW or MB or Audi I do not see that happening.
 

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There's more to it though. Consider Tesla Model S. They sold ~25k units in 2013, only a little more than Ghibli sales will be for 2014. I noticed 7 Teslas on a 20 mile stretch of highway inside 20 minutes. In about a year you are going to see a lot more Maseratis than you ever have. With a near 10x sales multiple by 2015, which they will make no doubt, Maserati brand exclusivity is going to diminish. Don't try to trick yourself otherwise.
 

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good point but its not apple to apple comparison. Tesla's 25k sales of Model S in 2013 is mostly in US vs. Ghibli sales 20k target is GLOBAL #.
 

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good point but its not apple to apple comparison. Tesla's 25k sales of Model S in 2013 is mostly in US vs. Ghibli sales 20k target is GLOBAL #.
Sure. For argument's sake say Telsa sales were more distributed globally. So perhaps I would see only say 3 or 4 on the way to work (for now)... that's 3 or 4 more than I saw a year ago, now Tesla is just another brand to me, albeit a detestable, smug brand. My point is with the advent of the Ghibli (and Levante!) and Maserati's newfound desire to sell 10x more cars it is going to shed some of its exotic image. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

For now we are partway through eating our cake and digesting the first few bites; for a fleeting moment we have it both ways... savor the cake my friend.

Looking forward on the brighter side it's not like Maserati is going to be comparable or even approachable with BMW in numbers. Its image will retain some of its luster and prestige, but don't think "boutique" or exotic, think more... Porsche. The perception of the Ghibli and Levante will be comparable to the Panamera and Cayenne.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Assuming the production numbes for Porsche are similar which they are not. In 2012 Porsche produced 151K units or 6x Maserati's 2014 numbers. Of that 152K, 77K were Cayenne's and that was up 30% from 2011. Panamera's were closer with 27K down 3%. So based on the numbers you will see many more Porsche's 6x as many on the road than Maserati's. You may be right that in time Maserati if they get to those levels would be on the same level as Porsche but that remains to be seen and time will tell as we have discussed before. However, IMO the panamera does not even come close to looking as good as a Maserati and you tell me which one will draw the oooh and aaahs from the crowd.....IMO Maserati!! Levnte vs Cayenne we will see!
 

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I see between 5 and 10 Tesla's every day on California freeways. But I think even then the Tesla brand cannot be compared to Maserati, nor do I think we will see that kind of multiplier on the streets for this reason:

Tesla is the only real luxury electric car in existence. It doesn't have a competitor in my opinion. So if you want to be green, as many do here, and you want to do it in style, you can only buy a Tesla. Period. People in the market for a Maserati have other options and may not even see Maserati on the radar. People in the market for an electric car can't possibly not know about Tesla. For that reason I still don't think we'll see nearly the number of Maserati's on roads as we do Tesla's.
 

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I'm only referring to Panamera and Cayenne numbers. Once you see a few Panameras (or Teslas or Cayennes or whatevers) they lose some of the magic, they become... cars. This will happen with the Ghibli probably sooner than you think.
 

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Out of 25k Tesla's sale 15k were sold in US.
I believe out of Maserati's 25k Ghibli global sale, in US it will sell only 40% (10k) as demand in Asia (mainly China) is exploding.
Now 15k vs 10k, I believe we will see less Ghibli than Tesla S, but not significantly less.
However, Tesla's sale will keep growing which will eventually hit 20k in US in next couple of years, so twice more than Ghibli in 2015.
Now, the actual perception people may feel is much more than stats we have here. If you see at least 2 Ghibli on your way to work, you will now say that there are too many Maseratis on the road. Seeing two Toyota vs two Maserati is significantly different because it stands out more and has more impact on your memory.
On the other hand, the brand also affects the people's perception, as many don't even know the existence of Ghibli, but normal people know more about Tesla.
So Ghibli may have more wow effect, and the uniqueness for normal people will last longer than Tesla.
 

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For that reason I still don't think we'll see nearly the number of Maserati's on roads as we do Tesla's.
The truth is in the numbers. Maserati is projected to sell about the same number of Ghiblis as Model Ss over the next couple of years. It's real simple. Before this year people saw/noticed on average 0 Maseratis on a daily basis. Thus it is a very rare and magic event to see one. After this year that number will be non-zero, which is infinitely larger. Hence the Maserati brand is going to shed significant exclusivity and quick.
 

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Fellow Ghiblerati
Last Friday on my way to silicon valley I counted 7 teslas (Rsm...what's up withe the seven my man) before leaving sf and getting on 101...and stopped counting. And i saw one maz gt convertible. My colleague looked at the logo on my ghibli and asked what was the "crown" about. The point is tesla sightings are as common as German cars while maz is still a rarity. Ghiblis will become more prevalent but in Norcal socal FL and NY. At 10k units in the US let's say 8k between norcal socal FL and NY. Let's pick on norcal and say 2k in the bay area. Using 80 miles north and southbound and assuming every ghibli is doing a commute that's roughly 25 ghiblis per mile or 6 for every 400 meters. My guess is that you will probably see 10 BMWs 10 audie and 10 mercs before you see one ghibli that you will stand out. By the way my boss who is a porsche racer said after a ride in my ghibli "the interior is like a gucci purse"
By the way have you seen the 8 series bimmer design -- pininfarina -- very inspired by maz. The issue is not whether maz will retain exclusivity....a bigger one is whether the Germans and Japanese will copy Italian design
 

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While I like a subjective discussion as much as the next guy, let's look at this objectively...here are the rough numbers to put this in perspective….

Maserati
GLOBAL sales = 25,000 units
Quattroporte = 10K
Ghibli = 8.5K
GT = 5.5K
US sales = 4,768 units
actual breakdown not available for US, but assume similar to global
Quattroporte = 1,947
Ghibli = 1,832
GT = 1,089

NOW….with the introduction of the Levante, Maserati in 2015 will hit 50,000 units GLOBALLY. Roughly, 30% is projected to come from the US (15,000 cars)…today it is less then 20%. So, using some common sense, you will say Maserati will sell roughly 3,000 (conservative estimate) to 4,000 (aggressive estimate) Ghiblis in the US in 2015. Let's compare that to the argument of Tesla and Porsche and why not the competition to the Ghibli.

Tesla Model S
Global sales = 25,000 units
US sales = 15,000 units

Porsche
US sales = 42,000
Panamera = 5,500
Cayenne = 18,500
911 = 10,500
Boxster = 4,500
Cayman = 3,000

BMW US sales
5 series = 56,863
6 series = 9,762

Mercedes US sales
E class = 69,803
CLS class = 8,032

Audi US sales
A6 = 22,428
A7 = 8,483

Jaguar total US sales = 14,887
XF = 7,922
XJ = 5,434
XK = 1,346
F Type = 185 (only on sale one month; December)

I'm in Chicago and have seen 1 Ghibli so far. I see dozens of Es, 5s, A6s and 5-10 CLSs, 6 series, and A7s daily. The Ghibli is today and will remain for the next few years pretty unusual…you'll see more Jaguar XJs on the road and I see maybe one of those a day.

Maserati WILL remain a boutique manufacturer. Boutique is defined as a small shop offering niche products and that is exactly what Maserati always has been and will be for at least the next few years. I'm excited they saw the growth in 2013 and hope they reach 50,000 units globally (15,000 units in the US) between 4 models (ghibli, q-porte, levante, GT) end of year 2015. That's good for Maserati owners….the brand was almost DEAD 10 years ago, but doesn't mean they won't be exclusive. You may see a few more a week then before, but who honestly cares.
 

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Isn't exclusivity regional too. In the central London Veyrons and Phantoms are relatively common especially when the sheiks are around in the summer but out of London you will rarely see one. I imagine the same thing applies all over the world.
 

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fact of the matter is that you will noticeably see more maserati's on the road with the launch of the ghibli (and soon levante), period.. it's all relative.. if we're comparing with BMWs/Mercs/Audis then of course Maserati will maintain its exclusivity.. but i dont think we should be comparing brand names per say but rather with models.. my guess is that we'll probably see as many ghiblis on the road as the 6-series and panamera on the road (comparable on price also) in the next few years.. which is more than you would have seen in the past with the QP and granturismo..

i live in hong kong and the 6-series and panamera are not rarities.. but you do see them around a lot more than the QP and granturismo... so in that sense, yes i think maserati will lose some exclusivity with the ghibli, but i still think maserati can remain a boutique brand and not a mass market brand if they choose to.. i hope maserati can remain more exclusive than even Porsche... but the ghibli is afterall an entry level model for maserati.. i mean the whole point of maserati introducing the ghibli is for their cars to be more attainable, right?

to be honest, i would have hoped that maserati didnt come out with the ghibli base model... the ghibli S or Q4 shouldve been the base model so to keep the car more exclusive.
 

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Agreed culverwood. I see more Ferrari's than I do Fiat's in my area. That doesn't make them less exclusive to me. It's all centralized.
 

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to be honest, i would have hoped that maserati didnt come out with the ghibli base model... the ghibli S or Q4 shouldve been the base model so to keep the car more exclusive.
Agreed. The base model cheapens the brand.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I can agree with that be curious to know how many base models they sell and the average MSRP..............
 

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Perhaps the base model is to lure the folks that are more interesting in the cache of a Maserati rather than the true driving experience. Maybe those leasing managers from the "Joystick" thread will be buying the base. ;)
 

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Having purchased (still awaiting delivery) of a base model with a sticker of $82,100, it was not purchased for prestige. Rather, I have driven BMW's for years and it is time for a change. The Maserati (even the lowly Base model) has more power than the BMW and has extremely responsive handling. Yes, it also has the sweet engine sounds. Could I afford the SQ4, yes,? Are there SQ4's with sticker prices less than the car I am purchasing, yes? With that said, I live in Los Angeles--no need for all wheel drive, my daily commute is 11 miles each way half of which is in a canyon so I could simply not justify the additional $3,500 for the SQ4. Will I regret purchasing a base model later on--maybe but for the time being I am happy with my decision. By the way, my car will have 19" Portero's so unless anyone other than a car enthusiast or another Ghibli owner sees the car no one will know the difference between my car and an SQ4. Finally, I do not see how purchasing an $82,000 + car somehow cheapens the brand. Does buying an SQ4 with a sticker of $81,000 cheapen the brand? Let's get real here.
 

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It's about barrier to entry. Essentially we are saying the Ghibli is too accessible at ~$67k base price, which has an undesirable effect on the perception of the brand. The base model should start in the $80k range with upgrades to help maintain a desired level of exclusivity.

Regarding the choice between the sq4 and the base model, it's really only a matter of dollars, if you're honest with yourself. No one buys a top-tier sports sedan and opts for the lesser equipped version for any other reason (unless logic isn't part of the decision process).
 
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