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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Is Maserati “overrating” the power of the Ghibli SQ4? If we take a look at the Dyno sheets from tuning companies, we can see that the HP ranges from 287-316whp. This variation is normal due to different types of Dyno’s. Now, even if we look at the highest end of the scale and we are generous by giving 20% drivetrain loss since its AWD we get 316x1.2= 379hp. Low end being 344hp.

On the other hand, manufactures such as BMW and Mercedes Benz are underrating their engine power. For example: C63 AMG S comes with 503hp but third parties are getting 470whp on the dyno (470x1.15 = 540hp).
BMW M3/M4 is the same story. Claimed 425hp but dyno shows 488hp.

Now even if Maserati is “overrating” the Ghibli SQ4 engines, they can get away with it because 1) most people that buy a Masertai don’t really care about 30hp and 2) not many Maserati owners will dyno their cars. If in fact the SQ4 models have less power than stated by the manufacturer, those who tune it will be finally getting past the 400hp mark :|

Even if the engine is overrated, I still love it :D

I am attaching 2 dyno sheets. If anyone dynoed their SQ4 please post it here. I am interested to see the range and mean of the power as not every engine puts out exactly the same power and these cars might be exceptions.
 

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I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Im going to pretend i never saw this and i'm going too continue too believe its over 400hp.
 

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There a few dyno sheets out there for Maserati Ghibli's ... including US, German and Italian tuners which I've reviewed.

I'd say (IMO) the Enzo mainline dyno is the most dramatic improvement over any others, (your first attachment) I've seen or driven. I personally ignore the numbers but look at the % gain over baseline and my experience.

Disregarding the type of dyno; mainline being one of the lowest reading, I've seen a power loss of 12-29% for RWD to AWD reported. Of course the Maserati AWD system is the worst robber of power.

It's not unusual for a 25% loss in AWD, so can take the 29% with a grain of salt, as that is what the mainline unit appears to show. So I think the 404 bhp is reasonable.

That first dyno would translate into +66 whp gain or +93 bhp (engine) based on the gain and/or loss factor. Totaling 497 bhp if you take the 404 Maserati reported engine output.

In the end, regardless of whether you believe the reported 404 bhp, the proper tune seems to (absolutely does) make a huge improvement in the SQ4 output on paper and most importantly in the drivers seat which is what really counts ...:) plus it outpaced a stock V8 GT-S>:D
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
@BeerGuy Most reputable tuners and what is used in other forums is the 15% loss rule for RWD and 20% for AWD. Now, there is even a new debate that newer cars put down the power so well that the power loss is only 10%. We can't know for sure the exact power loss, as every car brand is different but I personally think 29% loss is a far stretch . It's common to see same brand and model car with more or less power than claimed by the manufacturer.

I don't doubt that Enzo's tune works and the car feels faster. Now, IMO you can't add 66whp to the HP claimed by Maserati and add 29% to that because that's not exactly how much HP your car has to begin with. Also, that can get very confusing and messy for other forum members when competitor tuning companies also gain 66whp on the dyno but because "we don't like them" we will only give them a 15% loss while we give Enzo a 29% loss. So then we would have two tunes both making 66whp but one "makes" 85hp to the engine while the other company makes 75hp.

In reality, Enzo's Ghibli stock made 287whp (344hp) and tuned made 353whp (423hp). That's an impressive 66whp. But this goes back to my original post is the SQ4 engine overrated or these two cars are just exceptions. I prefer my Ghibli tuned to have 420whp over 360whp but this will all depend of where it started at. Supposedly, a stock Ghibli should have around 340whp and not 287-316whp. That makes a huge difference at the end of the day.

IMO, it's just simpler to always use the same percent loss but keep in mind that some dyno's are more conservative than others.
 

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Gus. Thanks for the feedback.
I agree the biggest unknown is the manufacturers claim.
I've looked at posted dyno's from Italy, Germany and U.S. for Ghibli. Mostly base and a few are S.
What seems to be consistent is the % of gain over baseline dyno reading. Seems to be hovering in +23% range. So fair to expect a 23% gain in whatever is the real engine hp ... I guess back to your original post point.

I also note that the base curves for torque and whp follow the same pattern across different dyno's. Where there are big differences based on tuners design is the slope of the tuned curves. Most gradually increase over base and hit peak, than tail off. While some ramp up very quickly at lower RPM to give a more powerful feel. The posted Enzo torque curve peaks quickly which I think gives a good street feel.

Since I don't plan on racing the Ghibli, it's more a feel good on how it performs and sounds on the street backed up by some credible numbers, (% increase), and tuner reputation.

Some of you guys are more experts on this, I'm an enthusiast into the experience.

The only Ghibli tune I've had first hand experience comparing is Enzo's which was very noticeable and smooth over the stock SQ4.

MRPA1999 has a thread with ECU tunes by base or SQ4. I'll try to get him the dyno's I found so he can add if he feels they are relevant.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
BeerGuy, if you have some time, I would really like to see the Dyno sheets you found. I spoke with many tuning companies and they all make big claims but very few actually have dyno proof for the SQ4 model.
 

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if you pulled your engine from the car and did an engine dyno - im certain you would get the same HP maserati advertises. since your only option is to do a chassis dyno, the best you will ever get is WHP. there is no dispute that actual WHP varies from machine to machine.

enzo's mainline dyno reported 287whp stock on the sq4. my dynojet dyno reported 297whp stock on the base ghibli. another base ghibli got 305whp on dynojet..

its pretty evident the WHP is tied to the dyno machine used, since i doubt my car is laying down 10+ hp over the S model. im certain that if an sq4 owner use dynojet they would be around 340whp.

as soon as i get my car back from shop for the bust wheel, enzo is tuning my car, so you will clearly see the difference that a stock dynojet puts out vs a stock mainline. i expect my numbers to drop bigtime on enzo's machine.

i do not for 1 second believe the MFG lies about the true engine HP though, the HP derived from the engine alone, without any other functions of the vehicle.

the key is to determine which WHP dyno machine, is the most accurate? dynojet which is always high, mustang which is low, or mainline which is lower than all of them? until you determine which dyno delivers the most reliable info, you will just keep spinning your wheels wondering.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
From what I am aware manufacturers use their pre-production vehicles to do a chassis dyno. They have their own Dyno machines.

Now, which dyno machine is more accurate is besides the point. Mustang Dyno and DynoJet are considered the most reliable with MD being more realistic on a street scenario. Gearing affects your dyno results for DJ. The reason being is that it calculates horsepower by measuring the acceleration in rpm of the rollers in regards to RPM. This means that the longer the gear ratio is the less power you will see on the dyno. Now on a MD you add the weight of the car and the horsepower at 60mph. This number represents how much HP you need to push the air so the car remains at 60mph. That's why you can compare DynoJet to MD numbers but its good way to get a range of the stock power.

The second file I posted is from a Ghibli SQ4 on a DynoJet machine making 316whp. That's just 19whp higher than your car, even though we can't really compare those numbers since we don't know which DynoJet model was used and it was probably performed in different altitudes, temperature, humidity, etc. I just expected to see around 300whp on a MD and around 340whp on a DJ. Especially when BMW and Mercedes vehicles are showing higher readings than advertised.

The Base Ghibli should be making around 276whp and I seen Dyno sheets showing 260-300whp. This range makes sense and falls within a normal distribution.
 

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I sent a note to BIESSE Racing asking if they will share the actual before and after SQ4 dyno results for our comparison. They recently finished a Ghibli SQ4 tune and didn't post dyno yet. Claim is a moderate tune delivered 410cv to 460cv. Attached is the max speed test on dyno and car being dyno'd ... you can almost see the dyno curve on the monitor.

nero must be a popular color ... both Enzo and Biesse used a black SQ4 for postings.

https://video-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xfp1/v/t43.1792-2/11762078_10152896922757854_690773540_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjE1MDAsInJsYSI6MTAyNH0=&rl=1500&vabr=562&oh=036d86a6db7cee43d3a5e8034dcdd4b6&oe=55CAAD54

https://www.facebook.com/biesseracing/photos/a.10150215410757854.297278.279042017853/10152893528382854/?type=1
 

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here you go, like i said - the swings on the dyno machines are HUGE to say the least.. here is a stock SQ4 on dynojet showing 369whp..

contrary to enzo's 288whp on the mainline dyno..

identical cars showing 81 WHP swing from dyno machine to dyno machine... so which one is accurate? both measure WHP differently..

at the end of the day peak #s mean NOTHING.. you need to pick a machine and stick with it. baseline test your car to get a #.. make your mod, tune, whatever it is you are doing and test again to determine the change. in my opinion the dyno is simply a tool to measure the change. its not the be all, end all and that peak # is worth jack.. even then its very subjective to outside temps, etc.

if someone really wants to blow their ego up, go throw a pile of snow on your intercooler just before you do your dyno run, like magic your car just experienced a 5% gain in peak power. i wonder what the guy who changed his stock intercooler to the bigger aftermarket version gained? depending how much bigger he went, he might have some really decent gains.
 

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That seems consistent to a previous post by VIP3r1850 on 6/29/2015 (Maserati Life)
"My SQ4 on a dynojet laid down 361/394 bone stock"
 
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That seems consistent to a previous post by VIP3r1850 on 6/29/2015 (Maserati Life)
"My SQ4 on a dynojet laid down 361/394 bone stock"
yeah bc it was his car that i posted in the dyno sheet...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I took my car to a Mustang Dyno today and got 340whp and 360 torque. I am pretty happy with the outcome considering Mustang Dyno are pretty conservative with their numbers.

Does anyone know where the ECU is located? I checked on the passenger side footwell but its not there.
 

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I took my car to a Mustang Dyno today and got 340whp and 360 torque. I am pretty happy with the outcome considering Mustang Dyno are pretty conservative with their numbers.

Does anyone know where the ECU is located? I checked on the passenger side footwell but its not there.
yeah - pop the hood, its under the inspection flap on the passenger side, which is located just below the pollen filter. remove the cover, pull the tab up and disconnect.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
@flamingwicky Now i got excited with the possibility of getting the car to 400whp and 420 torque on a MD :D. That's around 500hp and 530 torque to the engine. But my money is going to GSR Technik/ Jailbreak tune. Bobby was extremely helpful and he really knows his stuff.
 

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Gus ... And you should be excited about the possibilities!!!
Is this their first SQ4 tune? Would interesting to see there dyno sheets of before and after. Most good tuners seem to hit a similar gain over stock but some of the little things and slope of tune curve make a huge difference in car feel.
Looking forward to get your first hand experience!!
 
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